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hey everybody welcome back it's going to

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be a great day today uh in our quest to

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discover more military people who have

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seen things uh I can't think of one more

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than a handful uh then Ryan Graves uh

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somebody who is speaking from his own

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personal experiences and not just

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somebody trying to put down the

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phenomenon and Jason how many people in

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Military and government have that kind

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of closed mind and even if they have or

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have not seen anything they just become

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debunkers yeah and that happens all the

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time and we mentioned it quite a bit but

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the true disclosure comes from the men

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and women in the service that have had

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experiences that have had sightings or

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close encounters and we've interviewed

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quite a bit of them now but this is the

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first time we've had a Navy fighter

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pilot coming to the podcast and talking

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about and it's none other than Ryan

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Graves which is important because you

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know we'll get into it with them but it

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you know these are the most trained

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observers in the world and if they can't

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identify something with all their

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devices is in their knowledge we should

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be paying attention yeah and good on

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them for providing that safe space to

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people who want to come forward maybe

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don't know much about this I mean we

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just take for granted that why don't

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these Pilots just come forward but it

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might be a topic they're scared of right

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the whole UFO tinfoil hat wearing thing

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is uh is an image people don't want to

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associate with especially if you have a

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career that depends on your sanity and

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uh you know how accurately You observe

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things so it is a a big deal when

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somebody from the Air Force or somebody

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who's a Navy a fighter pilot a pilot

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regardless is willing to put their neck

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out and say no no it's not just me it's

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others and I'm going to create that safe

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space so we're going to find out about

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uh his uh his events that happened in

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2013-14 as always and then find out

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about his new podcast and uh recently

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just a couple days ago he came up with a

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new advocacy group so we're gonna ask

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them all a big question busy boy yeah

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he's a busy guy yeah good Anonymous he's

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our kind of guy so with that we'll be

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right back with Ryan Graves on UAP

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[Music]

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welcome back to another episode of UAP

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studies podcast my name is Louis Borges

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joining me as always my good buddy Jason

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Gilman how's it going Louis it's going

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good it's uh it's a great day today

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another uh another uh illustrious guest

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in our quest to get more military people

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more actual boots on the ground guys

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who've seen crazy things and uh you know

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like you've just said in our intro there

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um you know disclosure is probably going

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to come through these men and women in

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the military because they're such good

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observers and uh Our Guest today is no

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stranger to any of this we've got Ryan

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Graves on the show today former Navy

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fa-18 Super Hornet pilot a military

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officer who saw UAP activity and so did

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the rest of his Squadron he's also the

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founder of a new uh advocacy initiative

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Americans for safe Aerospace and uh has

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his own amazing show called merge

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podcast we'll get into all that today

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but first a very warm welcome to our Our

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Guest today Mr rangreves

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thanks for having me here I appreciate

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both of you and uh

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thank you yeah let's have a little bit

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of fun so I'm sure you've told your

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story many times not to make it uh one

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of those things that you hate bringing

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up but if you could just briefly explain

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because I do think it's important that

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if somebody isn't quite familiar with

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what what all happened in 2013 2014 I

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think it's important to set that stage

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so tell us a little bit about what

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happened during your military service

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yeah certainly

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um so I joined the Navy uh started

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flying f-18s and I ended up joining uh

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the Squadron vfa 11 the red rippers

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um in 2012 I believe it was maybe late

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uh 2011 but I met them out on their

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deployment

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um and so went from being a flight

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student one day and about two weeks

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later

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uh I was on a aircraft carrier lugging

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my gear downstairs sweating like crazy

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the Middle East uh moving in essentially

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a couple weeks after that I did my first

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combat deployment

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but we were out there for about uh four

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and a half months or so and then we we

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headed home

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and once we came back we essentially

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slowed down our operational Tempo and

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entered a um a maintenance phase it's

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called so we're still flying but I had a

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reduced schedule and some of our Jets

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get uh some some overdue maintenance on

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certain things and one of those was to

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upgrade our radar was from the APG 73 to

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the apg79

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is a pretty big difference much more

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Fidelity and break things out at you

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know better ranges things of that nature

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but still it's just a radar so it

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operates the same way so it's a pretty

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easy transition except we were noticing

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more objects on the radar than we were

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used to seeing just say the other day

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with the older radar

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and this was in our working areas that

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we fly off of which is uh

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right off the coast of Virginia Beach

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and so normally we wouldn't have

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anything out there we check in we go

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flying

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in this big box in the sky over the

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ocean there

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then we upgrade our Radars and again now

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there's there's things out there that

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our radar is suggesting to us that

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they're they're in our working areas and

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at first we didn't think they were

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actually physical objects just due to

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the the suddenness of the um of the

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contacts and do the upgrade we thought

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they were some type of radar error

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perhaps that was inherent in the

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software and it wouldn't be a surprise

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necessarily because we often had those

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type of issues with older Radars things

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get changed and there's a problem

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these theoretically were supposed to

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solve a lot of those issues but here we

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are still seeing them so you know I

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guess it's a work in progress but

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um but when we fly around out there with

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those radar systems all our other

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sensors that are on the jet uh look

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where our radar is pointed essentially

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so although we weren't really respecting

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these as physical objects our radar is

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still pinging them and as we would fly

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close to them our cameras would

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essentially slew over to look at them

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um

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and so that's when we noticed that they

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were actually giving off uh IR energy

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from those points uh that were on the

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radar and you know and it just looked

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like you know it's so it's just like a

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camera image and it looks like a normal

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camera image or we can switch it to the

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IR mode or infrared mode and then we're

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looking at heat energy

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um and um

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and we would see what almost like a

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flashlight shining at us from that point

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um but very you know distinct IR energy

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coming from that exact point so at this

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point we had to conclude there were

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physical objects

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um and that was kind of it for the time

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being we didn't really have like an

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assessment of what they were whether

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they were some kind of weird debris or

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um

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or what have you

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um but we weren't really also like

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talking about and analyzing it so it's

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hard to really say what you know we

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thought they were at this point it was

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kind of more of just there was no real

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deep analysis we just we're starting to

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recognize that they were a potential

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problem

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um because we had to respect them as

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physical objects and they were enough of

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them out there to be bothersome to our

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flight training

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um then eventually someone uh from my

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Squadron two aircraft so four foursome

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ones

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um

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saw one of the objects with their own

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eyes

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um they were flying out to that box in

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the sky and there's a very specific

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altitude and GPS location where we enter

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the area and then about a thousand feet

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below or exactly a thousand feet at the

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same point the traffic is is departing

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those working areas

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so it's very actually a very busy piece

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of Sky it's probably one of the busiest

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pieces of the sky on the Eastern

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Seaboard uh to be honest

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um

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anyways so they were hitting that point

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that entry point and they're in a

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formation like this and right at that

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point one of these objects went right

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between uh the section of aircraft uh

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and the the lead flight saw it uh saw

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the object with his own eyes uh and you

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know assessed as a near mid-air

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um could physically see the object uh

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the wingman-2 could not see it or not

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that he could not see it but he did not

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see it

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um he wasn't and that doesn't surprise

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me because you're so focused on flying

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formation that's all he's looking at

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focused on not even his own instruments

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so that doesn't surprise me that he

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didn't see it um but Lee did see it and

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he just described it as a dark gray or

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Black Cube inside of a clear sphere

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um and I don't think it was moving at

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the point it was stationary at that

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point

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um right that GPS location and he kept

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knocking it off and uh coming back home

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at that point and then telling everyone

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the ready room they almost hit one of

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those one of those damn things

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um and then we filed a safety report on

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it

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um

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so that's kind of how I was introduced

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to these uh I'll stop here because you

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know I want to keep going too much

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without giving you guys an opportunity

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to ask questions but um that's kind of

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where we got to the point where hey this

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is now like a no [\h__\h] problem for us we

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have we're almost hitting these things

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we have to file safety reports

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and that was that was uh in a sense

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um our introduction as far as it could

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take us on the conclusion train that we

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were just like all right these things

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are physical there we don't know what

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these are they're strange

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um

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and and that was really it because we

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were leaving for deployment not too long

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after that

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um just a few months excuse me not

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necessarily deployment but for the

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workup cycle for deployment

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and um

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so we left uh eventually packed up our

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stuff moved on to an aircraft carrier

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essentially flew out onto it

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00:09:58,490 --> 00:09:56,580
and um that was the USS Theodore

278
00:09:59,810 --> 00:09:58,500
Roosevelt ended up off the coast of

279
00:10:01,190 --> 00:09:59,820
Jacksonville Florida

280
00:10:03,050 --> 00:10:01,200
and we're still seeing these objects

281
00:10:05,690 --> 00:10:03,060
down there and then on one of our

282
00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:05,700
flights we record the gimbal object uh

283
00:10:10,670 --> 00:10:08,399
their gimbal video and the go fast video

284
00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:10,680
uh on one of our training flights and

285
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:13,500
came back to the aircraft carrier

286
00:10:16,130 --> 00:10:14,160
um

287
00:10:17,449 --> 00:10:16,140
that was a unique situation for us

288
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:17,459
because we had not seen that object

289
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:19,200
before the gimbal object with that

290
00:10:22,730 --> 00:10:20,880
distinct shape or the mechanics it

291
00:10:24,769 --> 00:10:22,740
displayed or the formation of objects

292
00:10:28,009 --> 00:10:24,779
and how they were flying so that was a

293
00:10:31,009 --> 00:10:28,019
pretty unique experience but um seemed

294
00:10:32,810 --> 00:10:31,019
seem to be part of that larger issue of

295
00:10:34,850 --> 00:10:32,820
objects you know we thought they were

296
00:10:36,170 --> 00:10:34,860
from our conclusion essentially of a

297
00:10:38,509 --> 00:10:36,180
part of the same thing but displaying

298
00:10:41,449 --> 00:10:38,519
new behaviors not new things and new

299
00:10:42,110 --> 00:10:41,459
behaviors that makes sense

300
00:10:44,870 --> 00:10:42,120
um

301
00:10:47,569 --> 00:10:44,880
and so that was that you know we went

302
00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:47,579
did our training you know kept seeing

303
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:48,600
them

304
00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:50,160
um there's obviously more of that story

305
00:10:55,009 --> 00:10:53,220
but again without going into too much we

306
00:10:56,630 --> 00:10:55,019
leaving our deployment

307
00:10:58,250 --> 00:10:56,640
um I'm done with the Squadron about

308
00:11:01,069 --> 00:10:58,260
halfway through that deployment and I

309
00:11:03,410 --> 00:11:01,079
come back I go to my next training

310
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:03,420
station or my duty station which is in

311
00:11:06,769 --> 00:11:05,279
Meridian Mississippi

312
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:06,779
and I've become an advanced Strike

313
00:11:11,690 --> 00:11:09,600
Fighter instructor for about three and a

314
00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:11,700
half years training the people going to

315
00:11:17,449 --> 00:11:14,000
fly the F-18

316
00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:17,459
and it was there when I was hanging out

317
00:11:21,769 --> 00:11:19,740
in 2017 when the New York Times article

318
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,779
came out

319
00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:23,279
um and I saw on the couch and I was like

320
00:11:27,050 --> 00:11:25,260
oh that's the video that you know I saw

321
00:11:28,250 --> 00:11:27,060
taken and those are my buddies voices

322
00:11:29,690 --> 00:11:28,260
and all that

323
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,700
and then I kind of checked in with

324
00:11:33,769 --> 00:11:31,440
everyone and I said

325
00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:33,779
you know my my buddies are still flying

326
00:11:36,769 --> 00:11:35,399
on the east coast and elsewhere and I

327
00:11:38,329 --> 00:11:36,779
kind of just like is this still like an

328
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:38,339
issue you know is this still like a

329
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:40,140
thing and because I kind of had just

330
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:42,420
assumed it stopped for some reason but

331
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,680
um

332
00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:45,360
they're like yeah still going on we now

333
00:11:49,069 --> 00:11:47,700
have like no Tams up which I noticed the

334
00:11:51,470 --> 00:11:49,079
Airmen to say you know just like

335
00:11:53,329 --> 00:11:51,480
permanent notices to say hey I know an

336
00:11:55,850 --> 00:11:53,339
object's operating out here be cautious

337
00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:55,860
uh because we there are they're just

338
00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:56,700
here

339
00:11:59,150 --> 00:11:57,300
um

340
00:12:01,250 --> 00:11:59,160
and that was it and that's kind of when

341
00:12:02,750 --> 00:12:01,260
I was like well nothing you know

342
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:02,760
this is still going on nothing is

343
00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,200
changing

344
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:06,480
um and that's when I sent uh an email to

345
00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:08,760
the to the Stars Academy email address I

346
00:12:14,269 --> 00:12:10,500
found their website after seeing that

347
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:14,279
video leaked or however it came out and

348
00:12:18,410 --> 00:12:16,800
just simply said hey you know I you know

349
00:12:19,970 --> 00:12:18,420
I was there when I was taken I can try

350
00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:19,980
to answer any questions for you about

351
00:12:23,690 --> 00:12:22,140
the video or the circumstances if you

352
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:23,700
like

353
00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:25,860
um that was kind of my initial foray you

354
00:12:29,569 --> 00:12:27,240
could say

355
00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:29,579
yeah and you didn't stop from there

356
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:31,320
um you know it seemed like you you

357
00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:33,540
became more and more known within the

358
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:36,120
community or the UFO people that have

359
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:37,920
been you know watching this development

360
00:12:43,490 --> 00:12:40,320
over the last few years you've been very

361
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,500
active uh you you just and that's what's

362
00:12:47,569 --> 00:12:45,360
impressive is that you're actually the

363
00:12:50,569 --> 00:12:47,579
first fighter pilot that we've had on

364
00:12:51,769 --> 00:12:50,579
the head military personnel Uh Kevin day

365
00:12:53,449 --> 00:12:51,779
was on

366
00:12:56,210 --> 00:12:53,459
um former

367
00:12:58,490 --> 00:12:56,220
military personnel as well and he was I

368
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,500
think the radar operator uh on the

369
00:13:03,230 --> 00:13:00,480
Princeton I Won't Say I'm bad with names

370
00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:03,240
but I think that was what he did and it

371
00:13:07,790 --> 00:13:05,820
affected him on a personal level like

372
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,800
having gone through this like he said

373
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:10,560
you know when he watched the uh the news

374
00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:12,959
clip on TV he broke down like he was at

375
00:13:15,769 --> 00:13:14,700
a golf resort or something bringing

376
00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:15,779
plates

377
00:13:23,629 --> 00:13:20,339
emotional from seeing this played out in

378
00:13:25,610 --> 00:13:23,639
the TV did you have a similar emotional

379
00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:25,620
reaction to that like seeing that this

380
00:13:29,150 --> 00:13:27,060
is actually brought up that this is a

381
00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:29,160
serious issue and some of it you've had

382
00:13:33,230 --> 00:13:31,320
a big part to play in

383
00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:33,240
uh no I didn't have that type of

384
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:35,459
reaction personally but

385
00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:36,540
um

386
00:13:40,610 --> 00:13:39,000
you know when you're when you're and

387
00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:40,620
this isn't me tooting my horn this is

388
00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:42,060
just like a general statement on that

389
00:13:46,250 --> 00:13:43,740
Community you know

390
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,260
um we're we're pretty narrowly focused

391
00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:48,360
on our duties and for us with very

392
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,240
action orientated Solutions so uh you

393
00:13:56,690 --> 00:13:54,240
know my solution was to um

394
00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:56,700
you know try to bring some awareness to

395
00:14:00,530 --> 00:13:58,380
the issues so that people could start

396
00:14:02,810 --> 00:14:00,540
proactively uh treating this as the

397
00:14:04,490 --> 00:14:02,820
safety issue it was versus waiting for

398
00:14:07,009 --> 00:14:04,500
uh someone to hit one of these objects

399
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:07,019
and take out a jet and then you know

400
00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:09,360
maybe or maybe not we pieced together

401
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:11,160
exactly what happened and maybe we go

402
00:14:14,449 --> 00:14:12,720
forward from there and that's something

403
00:14:16,610 --> 00:14:14,459
I've seen a lot the Navy trained me as

404
00:14:19,009 --> 00:14:16,620
an aviation safety officer they sent me

405
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,019
down to Pensacola Florida for about five

406
00:14:24,050 --> 00:14:21,420
weeks I'd go through you know eight hour

407
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:24,060
day classroom type training to

408
00:14:29,629 --> 00:14:26,399
not only prevent mishaps but when they

409
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:29,639
do inevitably occur you know I was the

410
00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:31,380
one responsible for actually going out

411
00:14:35,870 --> 00:14:33,899
in the to the crash site picking up the

412
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,880
pieces and then putting them back

413
00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:37,440
together figure out you know what

414
00:14:40,370 --> 00:14:38,820
happened

415
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:40,380
um and unfortunately I had to do that a

416
00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:43,860
couple times but um it's it's uh you

417
00:14:46,490 --> 00:14:45,060
know if anything that's what they

418
00:14:48,050 --> 00:14:46,500
trained me to do and this just seemed

419
00:14:49,250 --> 00:14:48,060
like going through that process through

420
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:49,260
the channels that were available

421
00:14:52,670 --> 00:14:51,779
available to me

422
00:14:55,370 --> 00:14:52,680
um

423
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:55,380
so that's how I reacted to it

424
00:14:59,329 --> 00:14:57,600
it amazed me to hear that you said some

425
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,339
of these things they'd be out there like

426
00:15:04,189 --> 00:15:01,680
12 hours a day just sometimes sitting

427
00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:04,199
there sometimes moving sometimes in

428
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,899
winds as high as like 120 knots or I

429
00:15:11,389 --> 00:15:09,120
think that's like 140 miles an hour I

430
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:11,399
mean even if you had high-end Tech that

431
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,720
we have there's no way it's just going

432
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:14,880
to sit there unaffected and wind isn't

433
00:15:18,350 --> 00:15:16,620
always constant right it'll gust and

434
00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:18,360
then it'll it'll stop it'll come from

435
00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:20,820
another Direction so and if you've seen

436
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:22,860
the gimbal video it doesn't look like

437
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:24,839
anything aerodynamic it looks like a

438
00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:27,360
mushroom on its side leaning into the

439
00:15:31,370 --> 00:15:29,699
wind and nothing really seemed to matter

440
00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:31,380
and you know you mentioned your buddies

441
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,300
were on the the tape and you can hear

442
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:35,279
the excitement in their voice like by

443
00:15:38,569 --> 00:15:37,440
gosh because it's just everything you've

444
00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,579
been taught and everything you've

445
00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:40,800
thought you know about Aerospace and as

446
00:15:44,210 --> 00:15:42,180
a pilot you got to have a pretty good

447
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:44,220
understanding of that and it's all like

448
00:15:47,689 --> 00:15:45,839
out the window like what the hell is

449
00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:47,699
that and how is it even flying like that

450
00:15:51,189 --> 00:15:49,380
and I can just imagine what went through

451
00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:51,199
their minds when they see that you know

452
00:15:55,370 --> 00:15:53,579
what creeped me out the most oh sorry

453
00:15:57,290 --> 00:15:55,380
Ryan I didn't mean to cut you officer

454
00:15:59,150 --> 00:15:57,300
what what creeped me out the most is

455
00:16:02,689 --> 00:15:59,160
here and yeah there's a whole Fleet of

456
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:02,699
them yeah and like what like that got my

457
00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:04,500
hair on my arms just to stand up like

458
00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:06,060
there's a whole Fleet of them like

459
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,220
that's insane capturing one's insane but

460
00:16:12,889 --> 00:16:10,500
you know capturing multiple like that

461
00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:12,899
that you know this it's got to do

462
00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:14,339
something to you guys the most trained

463
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,800
observers in the world to not be able to

464
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:18,959
identify what these things are

465
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:22,440
I think our natural reaction was to be

466
00:16:27,949 --> 00:16:25,740
as pragmatic about it as possible and

467
00:16:29,329 --> 00:16:27,959
for us that's the essentially as fighter

468
00:16:30,889 --> 00:16:29,339
pilots that means just staying away from

469
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:30,899
them essentially right like just

470
00:16:35,329 --> 00:16:32,760
classifying it as a potential mid-air

471
00:16:37,069 --> 00:16:35,339
risk uh and then assessing it like we

472
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,079
would for any other potential mid-air

473
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:39,120
risk whether it be you know balloon or

474
00:16:43,009 --> 00:16:40,440
something that we just simply don't know

475
00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:43,019
what it is or uh assessment that bumbles

476
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:45,660
in which is to essentially call it out

477
00:16:50,749 --> 00:16:48,240
when we see it stay away from it

478
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:50,759
um you know so that was that was kind of

479
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:53,040
essentially the only take we could could

480
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:54,360
really do and again we don't we don't

481
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:56,040
really have any tools or sensors up

482
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:58,320
there I mean we have tools we have

483
00:17:02,090 --> 00:17:00,060
sensors but they're not designed for

484
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:02,100
investigating right it the information

485
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:04,500
that's presented to us is is filtered

486
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,140
and presented in a tactical format right

487
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:08,880
so we don't see like an analog spectrum

488
00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:10,260
and say oh well that's weird that's way

489
00:17:14,809 --> 00:17:12,780
over here you know it's just uh not how

490
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:14,819
it works it'll classify things as

491
00:17:19,130 --> 00:17:17,520
jamming or this or that uh just because

492
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:19,140
it doesn't know what it is

493
00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:21,660
I've heard some people try to kind of

494
00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:23,459
cast doubt on some of the pilots

495
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:25,140
testimony and say well you know as well

496
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:27,419
trained as they are they're still humans

497
00:17:31,789 --> 00:17:29,520
and they could mistake it for a balloon

498
00:17:33,530 --> 00:17:31,799
or something like that yeah yeah like

499
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,540
it's just an insult in my opinion and

500
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:35,039
I'm sure you guys feel the same but in

501
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,600
your personal case like you've got a

502
00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:38,520
degree in mechanical and aerospace

503
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:41,100
engineering so anything that's a machine

504
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:43,860
or flies you have a degree in it you

505
00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:45,000
know what the hell you're talking about

506
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,220
aside from your pilot training like that

507
00:17:51,950 --> 00:17:49,440
alone is enough to make you an amazing

508
00:17:53,870 --> 00:17:51,960
Observer so for some people to just say

509
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:53,880
well you know Pilots are only people no

510
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:55,919
no it's not like that you guys training

511
00:17:59,450 --> 00:17:57,900
everything in your lives is geared

512
00:18:01,610 --> 00:17:59,460
towards being better at your job and

513
00:18:02,990 --> 00:18:01,620
understanding though the workings of

514
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:03,000
those kind of things so when you guys

515
00:18:07,310 --> 00:18:04,559
are saying this stuff people need to

516
00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:07,320
listen and take it seriously well I'm

517
00:18:10,610 --> 00:18:08,820
I'm not going to disagree that people

518
00:18:12,350 --> 00:18:10,620
need to listen and take it serious uh

519
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,360
but I will say the degree doesn't

520
00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:14,880
provide me any uh special screen of

521
00:18:20,169 --> 00:18:17,820
infallibility things can change quite

522
00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:20,179
fast and so can technology Trends but

523
00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:22,140
that aside

524
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:24,299
um I'll say yes generally speaking that

525
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:25,740
is our job as fighter pilots to

526
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:28,740
recognize what's up there and so one of

527
00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:30,120
the most I mean that is the one of the

528
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:32,580
most important things we do because if

529
00:18:36,110 --> 00:18:34,440
we can't tell who's friendly or who's a

530
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:36,120
foe then we can't shoot missiles at them

531
00:18:40,669 --> 00:18:37,500
yeah um

532
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,679
and that goes back to you know Vietnam

533
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:42,240
War and we learned a lot of lessons

534
00:18:47,090 --> 00:18:44,460
there and so much of our sensor systems

535
00:18:48,890 --> 00:18:47,100
and Technologies are based just on that

536
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:48,900
knowing you know who's who in the zoo as

537
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:51,240
we say uh and then when we transition

538
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,640
from once we actually know who's who and

539
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:55,919
we start Prosecuting those targets the

540
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:57,600
second most important consideration is

541
00:19:03,110 --> 00:18:59,840
the distance off our nose essentially

542
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,120
how far away are we from those targets

543
00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:06,000
or the closest Target uh and that's

544
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:07,980
going to drive the threat range from the

545
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,600
overall group you know theoretically and

546
00:19:13,310 --> 00:19:11,039
there's all sorts of considerations and

547
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:13,320
it gets very technical

548
00:19:16,549 --> 00:19:14,640
um well you really break it down think

549
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:16,559
very simply it's you know those two

550
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:17,940
considerations

551
00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:20,280
um and what's interesting is that people

552
00:19:25,310 --> 00:19:23,160
like to cast doubt on is that

553
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:25,320
um you know we've spent years training

554
00:19:28,730 --> 00:19:26,820
to do this we're operating the best

555
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:28,740
equipment in the world to do this thing

556
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:31,799
uh we just executed on an air-to-air

557
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:34,260
training Mission uh with fully capable

558
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:38,460
systems when we came back and the

559
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:41,520
the the only skeptical or the only kind

560
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:44,400
of argument against that is you know the

561
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,760
centers didn't work correctly or the

562
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,679
pilots had some type of error knowing

563
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:51,120
how far it was off their nose which

564
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:53,340
again these are like the core elements

565
00:19:57,169 --> 00:19:55,080
of being a fighter pilot that we've been

566
00:19:58,669 --> 00:19:57,179
training for for 12 hours a day for

567
00:20:01,010 --> 00:19:58,679
years again it doesn't mean we're

568
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:01,020
infallible but the the type of attacks

569
00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:02,400
don't make sense and it's just spinning

570
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,440
around wheels and not really moving

571
00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:05,760
anything forward

572
00:20:12,049 --> 00:20:09,660
right and now you've been active

573
00:20:15,409 --> 00:20:12,059
more active on the political side as

574
00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:15,419
well bringing this forward to Congress I

575
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:17,700
know you've been friends with Leslie

576
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:19,919
Kane and you guys have been really

577
00:20:24,409 --> 00:20:22,260
working hard behind the scenes

578
00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:24,419
can we talk a little bit about

579
00:20:28,370 --> 00:20:26,340
what that was like for you to step into

580
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:28,380
the political realm and bring this

581
00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:30,600
forward to the the government of the

582
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:32,820
United States like that was a that was a

583
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,980
huge moment

584
00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:37,200
I wouldn't I wouldn't yeah I mean in a

585
00:20:41,029 --> 00:20:38,460
sense I wouldn't even consider a

586
00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:41,039
political thing

587
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,880
um

588
00:20:46,010 --> 00:20:43,440
I think you're referring to the first

589
00:20:48,169 --> 00:20:46,020
time I spoke uh or testified you could

590
00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:48,179
say about this is that kind of the the

591
00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:49,320
kind of coming forward to talk about

592
00:20:53,390 --> 00:20:51,720
yeah yeah so I wouldn't call it you know

593
00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:53,400
getting in the politics or anything like

594
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:55,080
that I just these are these were just

595
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:56,400
problems in the way of better

596
00:20:59,690 --> 00:20:58,020
understanding this and these were the

597
00:21:01,789 --> 00:20:59,700
right Tools in order to affect that

598
00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:01,799
change and at first you know maybe not

599
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,660
first but you know there's the you know

600
00:21:07,130 --> 00:21:05,280
the a double A American Institute of

601
00:21:09,289 --> 00:21:07,140
Aeronautics and astronautics which is a

602
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:09,299
science and engineering effort right and

603
00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:11,940
that attacks a very specific problem

604
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:12,660
um

605
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:14,340
and then with Americans for safe

606
00:21:20,450 --> 00:21:17,760
Aerospace that you know that is an uh a

607
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:20,460
policy and issue focused

608
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,520
um activism group and organization

609
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:25,200
um so not politics right these are just

610
00:21:29,210 --> 00:21:26,880
tools how can we help move the

611
00:21:30,770 --> 00:21:29,220
conversation forward with the tools of

612
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:30,780
the people of the decision makers that

613
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:32,100
need to make these decisions how can we

614
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,840
provide them the right information and

615
00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:35,760
the right ability to make decisions on

616
00:21:40,610 --> 00:21:38,940
this topic in a way that's best for

617
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,620
um you know what we want to do our

618
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:41,760
mission which is to move this

619
00:21:45,649 --> 00:21:43,200
conversation forward and to understand

620
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:45,659
what's above our heads yeah

621
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,480
um and so you know I'll just say the I

622
00:21:52,010 --> 00:21:49,919
don't see this as getting in politics in

623
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:52,020
any sense and none of my actions I see

624
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:53,520
this as more of just you know these are

625
00:21:57,289 --> 00:21:55,380
the right tools for the right job and

626
00:21:59,210 --> 00:21:57,299
way back when when I first spoke to the

627
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:59,220
Senate armed service committee uh that

628
00:22:02,149 --> 00:22:00,480
was the really only way we could get

629
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:02,159
attention on this had been briefed all

630
00:22:07,010 --> 00:22:03,840
the way up to the strike group Admiral

631
00:22:09,770 --> 00:22:07,020
and we still had no communication on it

632
00:22:11,990 --> 00:22:09,780
that that kind of communication into

633
00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:12,000
this or the briefing to the sun armed

634
00:22:15,049 --> 00:22:13,559
service committee and send select me on

635
00:22:16,970 --> 00:22:15,059
intelligence

636
00:22:20,029 --> 00:22:16,980
um Chris Mellon helped arrange that

637
00:22:21,770 --> 00:22:20,039
through his Network and that was you

638
00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:21,780
know after Dave fraver's testimony one

639
00:22:25,610 --> 00:22:24,059
of the first interactions that they had

640
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,620
on the awareness

641
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:27,720
that this is has been happening not just

642
00:22:32,990 --> 00:22:30,539
since 2004 but now happening since about

643
00:22:35,390 --> 00:22:33,000
2013 at least on the eastern coast or at

644
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,400
least since we've been detecting it

645
00:22:38,570 --> 00:22:37,200
um so anyways I feel like I can go back

646
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,580
to my story now versus answering your

647
00:22:41,210 --> 00:22:40,080
question but

648
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:41,220
um I don't know that's just how I feel

649
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:43,440
about it yeah and to that point that you

650
00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:44,880
just made there like your events were

651
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,120
what 2013 2014. that's when we started

652
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,919
to see them yeah yeah and if you look at

653
00:22:54,049 --> 00:22:51,539
the Tic Tac video in the Nimitz that's

654
00:22:56,090 --> 00:22:54,059
2004 so all these videos kind of came

655
00:22:58,010 --> 00:22:56,100
out in 2017 when the New York Times did

656
00:23:00,110 --> 00:22:58,020
the article but in terms of timeline

657
00:23:02,510 --> 00:23:00,120
there's a 10-year gap between the Tic

658
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,520
Tac and the gimbal video it's not like

659
00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:05,039
it just went dry for 10 years this stuff

660
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:07,320
has been going on and is continuing to

661
00:23:12,590 --> 00:23:10,320
go on and enough volume that you know

662
00:23:14,029 --> 00:23:12,600
it's becoming a problem so when you read

663
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:14,039
some of these Congressional reports

664
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:15,720
whether like you know we don't really

665
00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:17,280
think there's any thread or this and

666
00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:18,780
that I'm not a big threat narrative guy

667
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:20,700
in terms of like let's just spend more

668
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:23,460
on Military but I am an advocate of if

669
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:24,780
the pilots don't even know what the hell

670
00:23:28,490 --> 00:23:26,760
these things are somebody's gonna hit it

671
00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:28,500
something is going to happen and an

672
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:30,780
innocent life or lives could be lost so

673
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:33,120
it you know in terms of just knowing

674
00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:35,100
your adversaries you have to to know

675
00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:36,600
what this type of thing is regardless

676
00:23:40,610 --> 00:23:38,360
even if you're not an alien believer

677
00:23:42,590 --> 00:23:40,620
finding out what it is I think is

678
00:23:44,570 --> 00:23:42,600
intrinsic because we have military

679
00:23:46,730 --> 00:23:44,580
people just if you just look at this

680
00:23:48,529 --> 00:23:46,740
10-year window that's enough to say hey

681
00:23:50,270 --> 00:23:48,539
we need to look at this more but this

682
00:23:51,649 --> 00:23:50,280
has been going on for decades and people

683
00:23:54,049 --> 00:23:51,659
in the military you know even Robert

684
00:23:57,289 --> 00:23:54,059
Salas that's like a 40 year old story

685
00:23:58,850 --> 00:23:57,299
now right so this is nothing new but um

686
00:24:01,130 --> 00:23:58,860
I think it's good that guys like

687
00:24:03,049 --> 00:24:01,140
yourself aren't scared to talk and are

688
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:03,059
bringing this to the Forefront and uh

689
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:04,500
you know you were on Joe Rogan the other

690
00:24:08,149 --> 00:24:06,720
day you had a great interview one of the

691
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:08,159
things you said I actually liked that

692
00:24:12,830 --> 00:24:10,500
because we're UAP studies and we get a

693
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:12,840
lot of fun and people poking fun at us

694
00:24:17,270 --> 00:24:15,720
saying it's UFO not UAP and he asked you

695
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:17,280
about that too and said what is it is it

696
00:24:21,049 --> 00:24:19,020
like a stigmatic term or what and you

697
00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:21,059
said the term UFO has a lot of

698
00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:23,880
assumptions baked into it and I was like

699
00:24:28,370 --> 00:24:25,620
cheering on my end because I totally

700
00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:28,380
agree and a UFO is basically an

701
00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:31,020
unidentified flying object but there's

702
00:24:34,250 --> 00:24:32,460
been anomalous things people have

703
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:34,260
reported that aren't flying objects

704
00:24:38,990 --> 00:24:37,020
right they could be lights or orbs or

705
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:39,000
energy or you know even if you want to

706
00:24:42,289 --> 00:24:40,380
get into like the Poltergeist world

707
00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:42,299
that's not a flying object but it's some

708
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:44,820
kind of anomalous phenomenon so

709
00:24:48,649 --> 00:24:46,020
um what are your thoughts on that whole

710
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:48,659
UFO term is it good we've made the

711
00:24:52,970 --> 00:24:50,760
switch and why do you think we have

712
00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:52,980
yeah I I do think it's good we made the

713
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:54,600
switch and you know I stand by what I

714
00:24:58,250 --> 00:24:56,340
said before about the assumptions baked

715
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,260
in uh but you know I think part of it

716
00:25:02,270 --> 00:25:00,240
too is with the stigma there are there's

717
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:02,280
cultural assumptions and baggage

718
00:25:06,770 --> 00:25:04,860
associated with it as well from you know

719
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,780
from the very first movies on this topic

720
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:09,360
to you know just all the other

721
00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:12,840
complications to this that people

722
00:25:17,570 --> 00:25:14,760
um associate various emotions and things

723
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,580
to this which make them you know respond

724
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:19,200
certain ways when someone approaches

725
00:25:22,610 --> 00:25:20,580
them with the

726
00:25:23,810 --> 00:25:22,620
um UAP is a little different I think

727
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:23,820
because most people don't know what it

728
00:25:27,289 --> 00:25:25,080
is so they're getting a chance to

729
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:27,299
explain it first from a point where

730
00:25:32,330 --> 00:25:30,360
there are no preconceptions uh and so if

731
00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:32,340
we have good ambassadors on the topic

732
00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:33,900
then hopefully we can communicate that

733
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,460
well

734
00:25:39,289 --> 00:25:36,960
um so I think it's good that it's done

735
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,299
that I think it was

736
00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:42,240
um good that we also the terminology has

737
00:25:46,130 --> 00:25:43,980
been updated as well at least according

738
00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:46,140
to the Department of Defense through the

739
00:25:49,789 --> 00:25:47,820
National Defense authorization Act of

740
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:49,799
2023

741
00:25:54,409 --> 00:25:52,559
um utilizing the term uh anomalous

742
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:54,419
phenomenon so unidentified anomalous

743
00:26:00,110 --> 00:25:58,320
phenomena and verse aerial or Aerospace

744
00:26:02,090 --> 00:26:00,120
um and you know

745
00:26:05,090 --> 00:26:02,100
cultural stigma and baggage and all that

746
00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:05,100
aside I think it's you know a sad State

747
00:26:08,810 --> 00:26:07,380
of Affairs but uh at least we're moving

748
00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:08,820
in the right direction that some of this

749
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:11,480
might be caused due to the way we

750
00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:13,980
separate the divisions of responsibility

751
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,620
in our Department of Defense air is

752
00:26:20,510 --> 00:26:18,240
controlled by one person the space is

753
00:26:22,130 --> 00:26:20,520
controlled by another group uh you know

754
00:26:24,169 --> 00:26:22,140
the maritime environment is quoted by

755
00:26:27,529 --> 00:26:24,179
another and we're saying what domain

756
00:26:29,090 --> 00:26:27,539
these objects belong to in the very name

757
00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:29,100
um and so it's just you know if people

758
00:26:32,210 --> 00:26:30,840
wanted to make it difficult well then

759
00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:32,220
they had a very good way to do so

760
00:26:35,630 --> 00:26:33,960
because like I say it's either is or is

761
00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:35,640
not my problem and you know a lot of

762
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:37,500
name games so

763
00:26:41,570 --> 00:26:38,220
um

764
00:26:42,590 --> 00:26:41,580
my perception is that the move to this

765
00:26:46,370 --> 00:26:42,600
more

766
00:26:48,169 --> 00:26:46,380
um agnostic naming uh model is um is

767
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,179
good and will hopefully help move past

768
00:26:52,190 --> 00:26:50,220
that side as well

769
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:52,200
and you brought up a good point too that

770
00:26:56,450 --> 00:26:54,840
it has all these different elements all

771
00:26:59,450 --> 00:26:56,460
these different departments and

772
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,460
different uh you know people in charge

773
00:27:04,430 --> 00:27:01,679
with this phenomenon there's when it's

774
00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:04,440
in the air when it's in space when it's

775
00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:06,840
in the water when it lands on the ground

776
00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:08,940
it's all different departments that are

777
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:11,700
in charge of investigating this but it's

778
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,620
all part of the same phenomenon we've

779
00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:15,840
been talking to a lot of people that you

780
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:17,880
know have had experiences with the

781
00:27:22,430 --> 00:27:20,400
so-called occupants of these crafts

782
00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:22,440
so again is that something that with

783
00:27:27,230 --> 00:27:25,500
disclosure or maybe the more open this

784
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,240
this subject becomes

785
00:27:31,430 --> 00:27:29,279
this becomes more of a possibility now

786
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:31,440
that people have actually had these

787
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:33,120
encounters with

788
00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:34,919
occupants of crafts that they can't

789
00:27:39,890 --> 00:27:37,320
identify as being human the same as we

790
00:27:41,870 --> 00:27:39,900
can't identify what these crafts are do

791
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:41,880
you think that's coming down

792
00:27:46,190 --> 00:27:44,580
eventually is something that maybe CNN

793
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,200
will be able to report on because right

794
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,020
now that's taboo right we're okay with

795
00:27:52,669 --> 00:27:51,120
talking about the disclosure on the

796
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:52,679
flying objects

797
00:27:56,810 --> 00:27:55,020
but when they land on the ground and

798
00:27:59,390 --> 00:27:56,820
people see things we don't really cover

799
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:59,400
that I think it should be covered but do

800
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,659
you think that's something that will

801
00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:03,840
generate more interest as this

802
00:28:08,810 --> 00:28:07,260
disclosure soft disclosure occurs

803
00:28:12,289 --> 00:28:08,820
I think that

804
00:28:15,169 --> 00:28:12,299
conversation is gonna have to follow the

805
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:15,179
science on the on it right so right you

806
00:28:18,049 --> 00:28:16,500
know a few few assumptions baked in

807
00:28:20,269 --> 00:28:18,059
there you know words like craft and

808
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:20,279
things with you know that nature

809
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:23,760
um you know we're going through a

810
00:28:27,470 --> 00:28:26,220
efforts to work on better detection

811
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:27,480
which is going to lead to better

812
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,460
characterization and better evaluation

813
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:32,159
of these objects and you know some of

814
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,720
these objects might turn out to be X but

815
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,480
some of them might turn out to be why uh

816
00:28:39,289 --> 00:28:38,159
and if they're why that might leave the

817
00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:39,299
you know that might leave the

818
00:28:43,549 --> 00:28:41,220
possibility open for you know these

819
00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:43,559
objects to be considered craft or have

820
00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:45,659
objects in them or things and you know

821
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:47,100
again it's about following the science

822
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:48,900
we're just not in a position where we

823
00:28:53,090 --> 00:28:50,700
could categorize these as crafter you

824
00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:53,100
know having Hollow you know centers for

825
00:28:56,810 --> 00:28:55,140
occupants or anything you know that

826
00:28:59,450 --> 00:28:56,820
detailed at this point

827
00:29:01,370 --> 00:28:59,460
um so I you know I to your point it's

828
00:29:02,870 --> 00:29:01,380
work whatever the con wherever the

829
00:29:04,430 --> 00:29:02,880
conversation takes us we have to have

830
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,440
the conversation and that's something we

831
00:29:07,789 --> 00:29:06,000
haven't done in the past right we

832
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,799
haven't had the opportunity to look at

833
00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:09,600
the data we haven't had opportunity to

834
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:11,460
do the science and we haven't had the

835
00:29:15,250 --> 00:29:13,140
opportunity to really understand what

836
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:15,260
the conclusions could be from that

837
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:17,520
and so we're left kind of hoping and

838
00:29:21,649 --> 00:29:19,380
waiting and wishing what it could be but

839
00:29:22,970 --> 00:29:21,659
we're going to be moving in the right

840
00:29:24,169 --> 00:29:22,980
direction now we're going to be doing so

841
00:29:26,990 --> 00:29:24,179
in a public manner at least that's

842
00:29:28,430 --> 00:29:27,000
that's what I'm endeavoring to do and

843
00:29:31,310 --> 00:29:28,440
that's I think the best we can ask for

844
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,320
right now right yeah recently we've had

845
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,840
these uh lots of talk in the news of

846
00:29:38,269 --> 00:29:35,520
things in our airspace and flying around

847
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:38,279
and uh and you were recently on CNN and

848
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:42,000
as they tried to kind of water it down I

849
00:29:46,610 --> 00:29:43,440
love your quote it's like we have a real

850
00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:46,620
UFO problem not just balloons and it was

851
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:49,260
a way I think to kind of regain that

852
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:50,700
power of saying no no you're not going

853
00:29:54,529 --> 00:29:52,559
to do this again and just say no no

854
00:29:57,230 --> 00:29:54,539
maybe it's balloons or this is like

855
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:57,240
swamp gas 2.0 from the 60s or whatever

856
00:30:02,450 --> 00:29:59,880
right so uh what what are your thoughts

857
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,460
on on kind of media and how they portray

858
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:04,080
it are they taking it more seriously I

859
00:30:07,789 --> 00:30:05,760
mean even guys like James Fox Movie

860
00:30:10,190 --> 00:30:07,799
Makers have been on CNN talking about

861
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,200
the phenomenon so what was it like for

862
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,240
you to be on CNN and what do you think

863
00:30:15,470 --> 00:30:13,679
it really means the fact that they're

864
00:30:16,850 --> 00:30:15,480
willing to put you on and have you give

865
00:30:18,649 --> 00:30:16,860
your opinion

866
00:30:20,570 --> 00:30:18,659
yeah you know I think it's uh I think

867
00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:20,580
the conversation has changed a lot so I

868
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:24,000
mean I remember being on CNN in 2017 no

869
00:30:31,310 --> 00:30:28,080
not 2018 or 2019 but and you know lead

870
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,320
in with the X-Files music and uh you

871
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:33,600
know wow you know just very kind of like

872
00:30:37,490 --> 00:30:35,220
well we'll hear it out and that's pretty

873
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:37,500
wild type story but

874
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:38,640
um

875
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:40,799
we've seen that the conversation mature

876
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:44,159
quite a bit over that time and with the

877
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:46,440
recent shootdowns I think it's important

878
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,840
to consider that how the story evolved

879
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:50,399
right so we started with the Chinese

880
00:30:54,889 --> 00:30:53,100
balloon that was uh discovered by uh

881
00:30:57,470 --> 00:30:54,899
civilian photographers or at least it

882
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:57,480
was leaked that way and then we

883
00:31:01,010 --> 00:30:58,799
presumably have been tracking it the

884
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:01,020
whole time and then we shot it down uh

885
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:03,360
then we uh We've and we've communicated

886
00:31:08,210 --> 00:31:05,880
this publicly that we then lowered the

887
00:31:10,909 --> 00:31:08,220
speed filters on our radar system so

888
00:31:14,750 --> 00:31:10,919
look for slower speed objects which

889
00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:14,760
resulted US in US seeing some uh I have

890
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:17,520
to assume we saw more than three but we

891
00:31:21,049 --> 00:31:19,980
elected to shoot down three

892
00:31:22,970 --> 00:31:21,059
um

893
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:22,980
we weren't able to find those objects

894
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,080
there's no imagery of those objects yet

895
00:31:29,230 --> 00:31:27,120
and the pilots did not seem able to

896
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:29,240
easily describe the objects

897
00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:32,220
in public statements from you know the

898
00:31:35,389 --> 00:31:33,659
president on down there's been a very

899
00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:35,399
clear bifurcation between the Chinese

900
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:37,860
balloon and whatever these three objects

901
00:31:44,570 --> 00:31:39,480
are

902
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:44,580
the east coast we were seeing slow

903
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:47,940
objects 0.00.1 Mach but those objects

904
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:50,460
were stationary over the ground

905
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,380
um for long periods of time my

906
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:53,760
understanding is at least how it's been

907
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:55,260
communicated publicly is that these

908
00:32:00,649 --> 00:31:58,080
objects were drifting in the wind uh at

909
00:32:04,250 --> 00:32:00,659
least that was a majority behavior

910
00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:04,260
um but what what the point is isn't

911
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:05,700
whether they're the same objects whether

912
00:32:09,769 --> 00:32:07,260
or not the same objects the point is

913
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:09,779
that we don't you know we've been I've

914
00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:10,860
been communicating for a number of years

915
00:32:14,990 --> 00:32:12,299
that we don't have as much certainty

916
00:32:16,669 --> 00:32:15,000
about about what's above our head as as

917
00:32:18,409 --> 00:32:16,679
we thought we did and we're seeing that

918
00:32:20,029 --> 00:32:18,419
fact play out in real time with these

919
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:20,039
shoot Downs

920
00:32:26,269 --> 00:32:24,240
seems to have provided the uh the

921
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:26,279
opportunity for the Aero leadership to

922
00:32:31,850 --> 00:32:30,600
brief members of Congress and Senate and

923
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:31,860
um

924
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:33,600
regardless of what those three balloons

925
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:36,120
or those three objects are it's so easy

926
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:38,580
to do yeah right yeah whatever those

927
00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:40,740
three objects end up being Arrow still

928
00:32:45,649 --> 00:32:42,600
got the opportunity I think to brief The

929
00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:45,659
Wider wider issue and the scope of it

930
00:32:48,710 --> 00:32:46,919
and I think that's what a lot of those

931
00:32:51,529 --> 00:32:48,720
senators were reacting to when they came

932
00:32:52,909 --> 00:32:51,539
out of those briefings

933
00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:52,919
um and so this just goes to the point

934
00:32:56,090 --> 00:32:54,539
you know we need to we need to

935
00:32:58,370 --> 00:32:56,100
understand what these objects are we

936
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:58,380
can't just blow them off because they're

937
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,679
um uh some uh debunkers or Skeptics like

938
00:33:04,549 --> 00:33:03,360
to just say oh well they're balloons you

939
00:33:06,110 --> 00:33:04,559
know I've been saying from the very

940
00:33:08,269 --> 00:33:06,120
beginning that's not a that's not an

941
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:08,279
excuse to ignore this issue

942
00:33:13,130 --> 00:33:10,620
um if there's potential adversary

943
00:33:15,049 --> 00:33:13,140
um intelligence gathering platforms and

944
00:33:17,389 --> 00:33:15,059
we need to you know treat this as a

945
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:17,399
national security issue and if if

946
00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:18,480
there's something there we can't

947
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:20,220
identify we need to treat it with

948
00:33:23,750 --> 00:33:22,140
scientific curiosity

949
00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:23,760
um something might fall out of that that

950
00:33:27,049 --> 00:33:25,380
ends up turning into a national security

951
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:27,059
issue right so we need we need to be

952
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:28,799
vigilant those objects we can't just

953
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:30,240
assume because we don't identify

954
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,760
everything's hunky-dory there so we need

955
00:33:37,009 --> 00:33:34,500
to be curious we need to investigate

956
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:37,019
those things uh and you know try to

957
00:33:41,230 --> 00:33:39,000
figure out what is not even if we can't

958
00:33:43,370 --> 00:33:41,240
figure out what it is yeah and even

959
00:33:44,509 --> 00:33:43,380
sorry jay I was just going to say just

960
00:33:46,430 --> 00:33:44,519
because you're talking about what it

961
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:46,440
could be or could not I like to ask

962
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,820
everybody their own opinion and

963
00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:49,440
obviously it's a ventured guest because

964
00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:52,380
nobody knows but what do you think in

965
00:33:56,810 --> 00:33:54,299
your imagination what makes sense to you

966
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:56,820
what do you think is actually going on

967
00:34:01,669 --> 00:34:00,720
so ma'am there's I've come to the

968
00:34:04,430 --> 00:34:01,679
conclusion that there's something

969
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,440
anomalous going on so what that means I

970
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,000
don't know yet

971
00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:08,879
um we've my Essential my my goal

972
00:34:13,609 --> 00:34:10,919
essentially is to make the the bucket

973
00:34:15,290 --> 00:34:13,619
around that anomalous nugget as small as

974
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:15,300
possible so remove all the junk out of

975
00:34:20,210 --> 00:34:17,520
there remove the the adversarial

976
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:20,220
platforms remove the

977
00:34:24,889 --> 00:34:21,599
um you know the potential for commercial

978
00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:24,899
platform in the US or anything like that

979
00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:25,500
um

980
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,780
and once we do that I think the

981
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,000
methodology and the science and the way

982
00:34:34,010 --> 00:34:31,919
we approach the problem has to change

983
00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:34,020
then at that point when we've reached a

984
00:34:38,089 --> 00:34:36,300
certain confidence level because we need

985
00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:38,099
to go back to a first principle's

986
00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:40,440
approach in a way that I think you can't

987
00:34:44,210 --> 00:34:42,119
necessarily do when you're looking for

988
00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:44,220
adversarial programs or things of that

989
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,780
nature

990
00:34:49,609 --> 00:34:47,760
um and so I think there's a couple tiers

991
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:49,619
of how this conversation is going to

992
00:34:54,050 --> 00:34:52,560
unfold so for me I'm still in that first

993
00:34:55,550 --> 00:34:54,060
part of the conversation where we're

994
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:55,560
still trying to pull things out but it's

995
00:34:58,609 --> 00:34:57,240
very clear that there is this core

996
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:58,619
that's going to remain as we keep

997
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:00,240
pulling things out because some of the

998
00:35:07,970 --> 00:35:04,680
behaviors that we seem to be seeing uh

999
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:07,980
are bizarre enough that they're um you

1000
00:35:10,849 --> 00:35:09,720
know there's some low-hanging fruit you

1001
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:10,859
could say where it's like all right

1002
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,660
that's probably not going to wash out as

1003
00:35:17,930 --> 00:35:15,119
an adversarial threat but again that

1004
00:35:19,730 --> 00:35:17,940
once we once we've clearly identified

1005
00:35:21,230 --> 00:35:19,740
that and parameterized it then it's a

1006
00:35:22,430 --> 00:35:21,240
time to start looking at it in a

1007
00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:22,440
different Manner and say okay what

1008
00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:24,780
conclusions can we draw from this maybe

1009
00:35:28,790 --> 00:35:26,339
that would be an easy process maybe it

1010
00:35:31,069 --> 00:35:28,800
won't but it'll be a different process

1011
00:35:32,690 --> 00:35:31,079
I know that's a super unsatisfying

1012
00:35:34,730 --> 00:35:32,700
answer I'm sorry you believe in aliens

1013
00:35:36,050 --> 00:35:34,740
or don't you believe in it I totally

1014
00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:36,060
believe that there's a potential for

1015
00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:38,940
right so space doesn't stop at some

1016
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,940
magical number above our heads

1017
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,160
um you know we are part part of this

1018
00:35:48,109 --> 00:35:46,560
universe and it's very likely that this

1019
00:35:50,990 --> 00:35:48,119
universe has other intelligent life

1020
00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:51,000
other than us and I think it would be uh

1021
00:35:55,250 --> 00:35:53,099
silly to think that they'd be limited to

1022
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:55,260
the uh the means of traveling around the

1023
00:35:59,150 --> 00:35:56,880
universe that we can currently uh

1024
00:36:01,069 --> 00:35:59,160
technologically achieve

1025
00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:01,079
um so I think

1026
00:36:05,089 --> 00:36:02,940
um I think that possibility is certainly

1027
00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:05,099
on the table it's the peak of human

1028
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:07,140
ignorance to think that it's just us we

1029
00:36:10,490 --> 00:36:09,300
know everything and I mean our actions

1030
00:36:12,829 --> 00:36:10,500
demonstrate that we actually believe

1031
00:36:14,810 --> 00:36:12,839
that as a as a species in general you

1032
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:14,820
know obviously some of us are more

1033
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,740
open-minded than others some of us are

1034
00:36:20,930 --> 00:36:18,960
you know dictator type mentalities and

1035
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:20,940
those people find the roles in life that

1036
00:36:25,069 --> 00:36:23,099
they're suited towards but but yeah if

1037
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:25,079
if we do believe in creation and

1038
00:36:29,089 --> 00:36:26,940
anything to do with quantum physics or

1039
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,099
the Consciousness level create duration

1040
00:36:33,530 --> 00:36:31,200
wouldn't just be so limited as to put a

1041
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,540
couple life forms on a pale blue dot

1042
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:35,280
somewhere on the planet right so open

1043
00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:37,260
mind is good and and I appreciate you

1044
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,700
saying that because we have chatted with

1045
00:36:42,109 --> 00:36:40,560
some military people kind of the Old

1046
00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:42,119
Guard military guys that have been

1047
00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:44,940
retired for a couple decades and uh they

1048
00:36:49,790 --> 00:36:46,500
still think that it's ours it's China

1049
00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:49,800
it's Russia they've either been so kind

1050
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:51,780
of ingrained or trained that way like

1051
00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:54,480
don't don't go there it's crazy and for

1052
00:36:58,130 --> 00:36:56,700
them it's hard to shed that taboo so you

1053
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,140
guys are kind of like the perfect age

1054
00:37:02,089 --> 00:37:00,480
the perfect level of experience and

1055
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:02,099
open-mindedness that I think you can

1056
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:04,079
really make this happen so having your

1057
00:37:09,349 --> 00:37:06,240
own experiences helps too absolutely

1058
00:37:11,569 --> 00:37:09,359
yeah it's hard for people to especially

1059
00:37:14,690 --> 00:37:11,579
I would say you know the cohort that you

1060
00:37:17,089 --> 00:37:14,700
just uh identified to believe things so

1061
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,099
far removed from their life experiences

1062
00:37:20,089 --> 00:37:18,720
that they've you know experienced their

1063
00:37:23,390 --> 00:37:20,099
whole life they're much more ingrained

1064
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:23,400
in their own reality yeah uh you know I

1065
00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:25,200
was a fighter pilot for eight months

1066
00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:26,760
before we started seeing weird stuff I

1067
00:37:30,530 --> 00:37:28,740
mean the majority of my career you know

1068
00:37:32,569 --> 00:37:30,540
I mean since we've created The Radars

1069
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:32,579
myself and others so this was this was

1070
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:36,000
normal for me and for us that was my

1071
00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:38,099
reality that was what we experienced and

1072
00:37:41,210 --> 00:37:39,359
so

1073
00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:41,220
um I understand it can be hard to adjust

1074
00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:45,300
without hard data yeah I like the uh

1075
00:37:49,970 --> 00:37:48,180
coexistence theory that I'll put off

1076
00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:49,980
sort of put out there recently just

1077
00:37:53,930 --> 00:37:51,780
saying that maybe these things have been

1078
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:53,940
around for a long time

1079
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:56,460
um and I we did mention uh before on the

1080
00:38:00,290 --> 00:37:58,079
podcast but I'll just say it again you

1081
00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:00,300
know they're discovering that apes are

1082
00:38:05,210 --> 00:38:02,940
slowly entering the Stone Age they're

1083
00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:05,220
discovering how to make sharp sticks and

1084
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:07,560
fish for food and they're discovering

1085
00:38:11,630 --> 00:38:10,079
this stuff they're evolving and what if

1086
00:38:13,970 --> 00:38:11,640
that happened to us it's just we happen

1087
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:13,980
to be the Apes to whatever this species

1088
00:38:17,930 --> 00:38:16,260
is they get to monitor us but the minute

1089
00:38:20,089 --> 00:38:17,940
we start blowing each other up with

1090
00:38:21,890 --> 00:38:20,099
nukes it drew their attention because

1091
00:38:24,050 --> 00:38:21,900
now it affected them personally the same

1092
00:38:26,210 --> 00:38:24,060
way as it would if ape started playing

1093
00:38:29,450 --> 00:38:26,220
around with nukes we would be watching

1094
00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:29,460
them it's no different and I I love that

1095
00:38:32,569 --> 00:38:31,260
theory that maybe we've been coexisting

1096
00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:32,579
with these things maybe that's why

1097
00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:34,200
they're here we're just got better

1098
00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:37,260
technology to detect them now and it's

1099
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:39,060
interesting because that opens up a

1100
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:42,960
whole new world of questions right we

1101
00:38:46,670 --> 00:38:44,460
keep saying are we alone well we had

1102
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,680
different human species live among us

1103
00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:48,960
for such a long time they all died out

1104
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:51,300
but we weren't alone there was others so

1105
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:52,980
I think it's a laughable question when

1106
00:38:56,750 --> 00:38:54,660
people say are we alone in the universe

1107
00:38:59,089 --> 00:38:56,760
like are you kidding me probably when we

1108
00:39:00,290 --> 00:38:59,099
find out the magnitude of intelligent

1109
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:00,300
life out there

1110
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,220
it'll be the most laughable quote or

1111
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:04,800
question that we've ever asked right but

1112
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:07,440
that's my hopes that's my hopes hopes

1113
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:08,880
and dreams

1114
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:10,500
um let's talk a bit about merged your

1115
00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:13,680
podcast So you you're bringing on pilots

1116
00:39:19,730 --> 00:39:17,820
and scientists on the show uh it got a

1117
00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:19,740
scientific inquiry and a radically

1118
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:22,140
open-minded approach is the slogan that

1119
00:39:26,690 --> 00:39:24,480
you have on your website and I love that

1120
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,700
because basically you're opening up the

1121
00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:28,560
table you open up the conversation for

1122
00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:30,839
people come down have a cup of coffee

1123
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:32,880
and talk about what they've seen and

1124
00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:34,380
you're you're giving them that platform

1125
00:39:38,930 --> 00:39:36,780
so how did that come about

1126
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,940
yeah it was just you know another need

1127
00:39:43,730 --> 00:39:40,740
that I identified

1128
00:39:45,650 --> 00:39:43,740
um you know I I took my risk as a pilot

1129
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:45,660
to communicate on this topic

1130
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,180
but I know I'd known a lot of other

1131
00:39:52,430 --> 00:39:50,400
Pilots had seen things whether it was

1132
00:39:54,650 --> 00:39:52,440
the same things I had experienced or

1133
00:39:56,990 --> 00:39:54,660
whether it was their own personal

1134
00:39:59,630 --> 00:39:57,000
stories from their time flying you know

1135
00:40:01,250 --> 00:39:59,640
back long ago and so I knew there was

1136
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:01,260
this you know incredible amount of

1137
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,780
information uh and you know one of the

1138
00:40:07,010 --> 00:40:05,280
things I've heard a lot over the past

1139
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:07,020
few years is why is it just Ryan talking

1140
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:09,359
about this this if it was if it's so

1141
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:10,859
common

1142
00:40:13,609 --> 00:40:11,700
um

1143
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:13,619
you know primarily what I've been

1144
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:14,880
hearing is just people just don't want

1145
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:17,640
to risk their career and go on

1146
00:40:23,390 --> 00:40:20,880
um and no offense but that a a a like

1147
00:40:25,970 --> 00:40:23,400
UFO Only topic that is like foreign to

1148
00:40:26,569 --> 00:40:25,980
them that they just they're not into

1149
00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:26,579
um

1150
00:40:30,410 --> 00:40:28,619
uh it's just I think people have been

1151
00:40:31,609 --> 00:40:30,420
hesitant to go on those because they are

1152
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:31,619
afraid how it's going to reflect on

1153
00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:35,160
their career as an aviator they have

1154
00:40:39,290 --> 00:40:37,320
fear that they could lose their careers

1155
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:39,300
it's not just losing your job you know

1156
00:40:43,790 --> 00:40:41,220
it's losing your career I mean you you

1157
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:43,800
lose your medical license

1158
00:40:47,690 --> 00:40:45,480
what do you what do you do you know you

1159
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:47,700
start over and you're 30 to 40 50s

1160
00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:50,940
whatever to uh brutal try a new career I

1161
00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:53,400
mean it so it can it can be tough um and

1162
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:55,740
there's really no upside to to doing

1163
00:40:59,930 --> 00:40:57,420
that so

1164
00:41:01,730 --> 00:40:59,940
um I said hey you know can I provide a

1165
00:41:03,050 --> 00:41:01,740
place that is

1166
00:41:07,790 --> 00:41:03,060
um

1167
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:07,800
these aviators aren't going to feel like

1168
00:41:11,690 --> 00:41:09,060
they're going to be risking overly

1169
00:41:13,370 --> 00:41:11,700
risking something by coming on here and

1170
00:41:16,430 --> 00:41:13,380
we can have a conversation pilot the

1171
00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:16,440
pilot about their experiences

1172
00:41:20,930 --> 00:41:19,020
um and you know not try to drag draw

1173
00:41:22,370 --> 00:41:20,940
conclusions about their experiences or

1174
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:22,380
anything else but just kind of just hear

1175
00:41:27,050 --> 00:41:25,380
them out and and just show people uh

1176
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:27,060
that these these things are much more

1177
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:28,800
common than they thought it's just

1178
00:41:33,050 --> 00:41:30,540
Pilots haven't felt comfortable talking

1179
00:41:34,609 --> 00:41:33,060
about it yeah right we've heard recently

1180
00:41:36,890 --> 00:41:34,619
that they have you know whistleblower

1181
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,900
protections now and I've said it on a

1182
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:38,160
few different shows we've been on people

1183
00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:40,140
asked and I said well that's great maybe

1184
00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:42,540
it legally means they can't fire you but

1185
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:44,820
there's no reputation protection in that

1186
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,920
so yeah it's great you can go and

1187
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:48,480
testify and you know maybe there's a

1188
00:41:51,650 --> 00:41:49,800
little more room there than there was

1189
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:51,660
but it still doesn't change what your

1190
00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:53,520
peers think of you it still doesn't mean

1191
00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:55,500
that as a former military guy you may

1192
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:57,240
not get a job as a commercial pilot now

1193
00:42:01,550 --> 00:41:59,040
because people think you're a little out

1194
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:01,560
there so it's good I mean it's better

1195
00:42:04,430 --> 00:42:03,119
than not having that protection for

1196
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:04,440
these people that want to come forward

1197
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:06,660
but there really is nothing to safeguard

1198
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,760
reputation unless you get rid of

1199
00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:10,560
ignorance once people stop looking at

1200
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:13,320
people funny then it's safe until then

1201
00:42:17,569 --> 00:42:15,180
you can have as many legalities and as

1202
00:42:20,270 --> 00:42:17,579
many bill as you want to say you're safe

1203
00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:20,280
to do that but people talk and you know

1204
00:42:24,490 --> 00:42:22,140
it's a it's a cultural thing we're

1205
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,500
humans this is not black and white so

1206
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:26,640
there's nothing really you can make it

1207
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,660
anonymous

1208
00:42:31,310 --> 00:42:28,800
yeah

1209
00:42:33,050 --> 00:42:31,320
um and so

1210
00:42:35,569 --> 00:42:33,060
um so let me let me just kind of there's

1211
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,579
two points I want to make here one is um

1212
00:42:39,710 --> 00:42:37,440
Pilots are not covered under the

1213
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,720
Whistleblower protection laws that went

1214
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:41,760
into place with the National Defense

1215
00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:45,000
authorization Act of uh 2023. I did not

1216
00:42:47,930 --> 00:42:46,380
know that that's you know defense

1217
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:47,940
contractors and things of that nature so

1218
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:49,800
nothing to do with Pilots unless they

1219
00:42:54,170 --> 00:42:51,960
happen to be a like a pilot on a very

1220
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:54,180
you know illegal program type setup but

1221
00:42:58,609 --> 00:42:55,980
that's you know that's minority I would

1222
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:58,619
imagine if if any

1223
00:43:01,849 --> 00:42:59,520
um

1224
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:01,859
but what about commercial pilots

1225
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:04,319
yeah so that's actually one of the

1226
00:43:07,849 --> 00:43:05,640
things that we're looking at doing with

1227
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:07,859
the ASA Americans are safe Aerospace one

1228
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:10,140
of uh probably our first uh policy

1229
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:12,420
positions will be to introduce

1230
00:43:18,589 --> 00:43:16,380
um legislation uh or Work legislation to

1231
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:18,599
provide those protections to pilots in

1232
00:43:23,569 --> 00:43:19,740
the commercial markets in the United

1233
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:23,579
States uh to be able to report that uh

1234
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:25,800
without fear of losing their jobs

1235
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,800
so the stigma is still very much still

1236
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,240
around even though we have all these

1237
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:32,400
developments that that you know or at

1238
00:43:35,390 --> 00:43:33,359
least

1239
00:43:37,490 --> 00:43:35,400
acceptance of the phenomenon happening

1240
00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:37,500
is that stigma still out there in the

1241
00:43:42,589 --> 00:43:40,440
aviation industry it's it's breaking but

1242
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:42,599
it's breaking up from at least what I

1243
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:43,980
hear at least to some degree amongst the

1244
00:43:47,630 --> 00:43:45,839
pilots but there's still that fear that

1245
00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:47,640
on the company's side it's different

1246
00:43:51,470 --> 00:43:49,740
because in like a major like Airline you

1247
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:51,480
know it's like the pilots and you know

1248
00:43:56,150 --> 00:43:53,760
it's a strong union and then it's like

1249
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,160
the corporate guys and they're not too

1250
00:44:00,710 --> 00:43:58,079
mixed up so I think it's it's loosening

1251
00:44:02,569 --> 00:44:00,720
up in the pilot side but there's not too

1252
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:02,579
much interaction there I mean so I know

1253
00:44:05,390 --> 00:44:04,319
one airline that has issued

1254
00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:05,400
um

1255
00:44:13,730 --> 00:44:12,060
well as made general you know statements

1256
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:13,740
to all the air crew not to engage

1257
00:44:17,569 --> 00:44:15,119
publicly on it

1258
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:17,579
or discuss it publicly so there's

1259
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:19,500
definitely definitely stigma and I think

1260
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:21,599
even maybe less stigma and just like

1261
00:44:24,710 --> 00:44:23,400
kind of uncertainty too right like I

1262
00:44:26,990 --> 00:44:24,720
think we are making that transition

1263
00:44:28,849 --> 00:44:27,000
we're in that transitioning phase and so

1264
00:44:30,890 --> 00:44:28,859
there's uncertainty

1265
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:30,900
um but maybe not that deep deep you know

1266
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:33,300
stigma and shame that has been right

1267
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,040
because it ruined people's life in the

1268
00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:37,680
past like if you came out in the 80s or

1269
00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:40,680
90s with with any sightings just like

1270
00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:42,060
you mentioned it ruined your life like

1271
00:44:46,130 --> 00:44:44,160
you weren't able to fly anymore people

1272
00:44:49,490 --> 00:44:46,140
thought you were crazy you were that UFO

1273
00:44:51,470 --> 00:44:49,500
guy there was nothing to basically

1274
00:44:53,630 --> 00:44:51,480
support these people that have had these

1275
00:44:56,089 --> 00:44:53,640
sightings there's no encouragement at

1276
00:44:59,630 --> 00:44:56,099
all for anybody to report these whether

1277
00:45:01,970 --> 00:44:59,640
it was civilian or Air Force or

1278
00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:01,980
um you know people in the military but

1279
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:03,660
now it's coming forward that actually

1280
00:45:08,450 --> 00:45:06,060
it's been Decades of sort of like I've

1281
00:45:10,190 --> 00:45:08,460
been silenced and I'm I want to be vocal

1282
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:10,200
about what I've seen what we've

1283
00:45:14,089 --> 00:45:12,240
experienced and it's it's amazing the

1284
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,099
amount of sightings and experiences that

1285
00:45:18,890 --> 00:45:16,319
people have had and now it's military

1286
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:18,900
Air Force well not I can't say stop

1287
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:21,599
saying Air Force Navy and uh other

1288
00:45:24,530 --> 00:45:23,160
departments that are coming forward and

1289
00:45:26,569 --> 00:45:24,540
saying look we're having a problem with

1290
00:45:28,210 --> 00:45:26,579
this the Air Force is still silent on

1291
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:28,220
this issue which is really frustrating

1292
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,480
uh they're not you know they got to be

1293
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:32,280
encountering things as well

1294
00:45:34,849 --> 00:45:32,880
um

1295
00:45:36,650 --> 00:45:34,859
I again I'm not going to ask you what

1296
00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:36,660
you think you the opinions are on that

1297
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:38,280
one because you probably don't know any

1298
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:40,880
more than we do but it's

1299
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,960
disconcerting at this point that we

1300
00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:44,400
haven't heard anything from them really

1301
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:47,520
and that they're not looking into a UFO

1302
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:50,280
program as far as I know

1303
00:45:55,609 --> 00:45:54,000
um what do you have any thoughts on that

1304
00:45:57,770 --> 00:45:55,619
um I mean

1305
00:45:59,569 --> 00:45:57,780
I'll just say I don't I don't have any

1306
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,579
thoughts I just say it's it's becoming

1307
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:01,440
increasingly obvious the Air Force is

1308
00:46:06,290 --> 00:46:04,319
absent to this conversation right or an

1309
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:06,300
increasingly stubborn

1310
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:08,819
um there's you know there's a good and a

1311
00:46:13,370 --> 00:46:11,160
bad way of interpreting the recent

1312
00:46:14,809 --> 00:46:13,380
interagency I think they called it a

1313
00:46:17,450 --> 00:46:14,819
task force that the White House

1314
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,460
announced not related to this the

1315
00:46:21,290 --> 00:46:18,960
optimistic view is that this will

1316
00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:21,300
provide more leverage and Authority

1317
00:46:26,990 --> 00:46:23,700
through the Aero office assuming they're

1318
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,000
aligned to be able to affect change

1319
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:29,280
uh perhaps that might help in that

1320
00:46:33,950 --> 00:46:31,920
regard right have you heard of anything

1321
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:33,960
in terms of infighting like and I'll

1322
00:46:37,550 --> 00:46:35,280
give you an example A friend of our show

1323
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:37,560
Ross coaltart he was uh he has his own

1324
00:46:41,690 --> 00:46:39,300
show with Bryce Abel and he would

1325
00:46:43,069 --> 00:46:41,700
mention that the Navy at least this is

1326
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:43,079
what he'd heard from one of his sources

1327
00:46:49,250 --> 00:46:46,500
the Navy is upset because they know the

1328
00:46:50,690 --> 00:46:49,260
Air Force has certain information in

1329
00:46:53,089 --> 00:46:50,700
some cases they know it because they

1330
00:46:54,829 --> 00:46:53,099
have similar information themselves and

1331
00:46:56,930 --> 00:46:54,839
it's almost like the Air Force is

1332
00:46:59,089 --> 00:46:56,940
controlling the narrative this is again

1333
00:47:00,410 --> 00:46:59,099
as per his Source but they're trying to

1334
00:47:02,329 --> 00:47:00,420
paint the picture that the Air Force is

1335
00:47:03,950 --> 00:47:02,339
in control of all this and they're even

1336
00:47:05,930 --> 00:47:03,960
filtering what makes it to the Pentagon

1337
00:47:07,730 --> 00:47:05,940
and makes it to the White House and that

1338
00:47:09,589 --> 00:47:07,740
somehow they are trying to control this

1339
00:47:11,030 --> 00:47:09,599
narrative and that's sort of the

1340
00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:11,040
disconnect between the Navy and the air

1341
00:47:14,650 --> 00:47:12,720
force that is rumored to be happening

1342
00:47:16,670 --> 00:47:14,660
have you heard anything about

1343
00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:16,680
interdepartmental you know things

1344
00:47:19,609 --> 00:47:18,060
happening people not getting along

1345
00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:19,619
agendas

1346
00:47:24,290 --> 00:47:21,660
yeah I'd say I've heard generally that

1347
00:47:25,730 --> 00:47:24,300
and that that would not surprise me if

1348
00:47:27,230 --> 00:47:25,740
that was the case

1349
00:47:31,069 --> 00:47:27,240
yeah

1350
00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:31,079
been way too silent it almost makes them

1351
00:47:34,430 --> 00:47:32,819
look guilty you know when you come home

1352
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:34,440
and your dog's done something bad and

1353
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:36,660
the ears are back he's not letting you

1354
00:47:40,010 --> 00:47:38,160
know what he did but you know he did

1355
00:47:41,690 --> 00:47:40,020
something uh that's kind of like just

1356
00:47:44,329 --> 00:47:41,700
haven't found the mess yet yeah exactly

1357
00:47:47,329 --> 00:47:44,339
it's it's waiting for you upstairs uh

1358
00:47:49,609 --> 00:47:47,339
yeah and and so um the Americans for

1359
00:47:51,050 --> 00:47:49,619
safe Aerospace that was just launched

1360
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:51,060
and it looks like you're doing really

1361
00:47:56,329 --> 00:47:53,880
well right now uh again this is

1362
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:56,339
something that you brewed up uh well I

1363
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,599
would say recently I don't know how long

1364
00:48:02,150 --> 00:47:59,760
you've had this idea in mind but uh when

1365
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,160
did that come about and uh how fast did

1366
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:03,839
things move for you

1367
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:05,220
well you know we've been kind of

1368
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:08,520
identifying the the need and I've been

1369
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:11,280
doing the leg work that we'll start

1370
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,800
doing with the ASA which to a greater

1371
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:15,839
degree which is trying to you know get

1372
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:17,700
op-edge published to bring this message

1373
00:48:22,370 --> 00:48:21,359
out wider uh to you know communicate

1374
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:22,380
with

1375
00:48:26,809 --> 00:48:25,200
um people in DC on Capitol Hill

1376
00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:26,819
um and you know it was a one-man shop I

1377
00:48:31,309 --> 00:48:29,220
was going doing it myself and

1378
00:48:34,130 --> 00:48:31,319
um trying to ensure that the legislation

1379
00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:34,140
that was being moved forward uh had the

1380
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,260
best interest of this topic in mind and

1381
00:48:41,450 --> 00:48:38,880
there's a need for guidance and

1382
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:41,460
expertise to advise people as they come

1383
00:48:47,210 --> 00:48:44,400
into this topic space both uh people on

1384
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,220
Capitol Hill elected officials as well

1385
00:48:50,510 --> 00:48:49,440
as the general public and that need has

1386
00:48:52,609 --> 00:48:50,520
been something I've been trying to fill

1387
00:48:54,170 --> 00:48:52,619
for a while and this is a mechanism

1388
00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:54,180
where we can do it in a more controlled

1389
00:48:58,130 --> 00:48:56,400
manner where you can gather data and we

1390
00:49:00,109 --> 00:48:58,140
can you know make our pitch to Congress

1391
00:49:02,809 --> 00:49:00,119
to say hey here's why you need to care

1392
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:02,819
about this because all your constituents

1393
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:05,160
do yeah yeah I checked out your website

1394
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,540
yesterday and I love it the first thing

1395
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:08,400
that popped up on your homepage was join

1396
00:49:11,930 --> 00:49:10,859
the fight for transparency and I love

1397
00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:11,940
the fact that that's your mission

1398
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:14,520
statement not to Define this or to

1399
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:16,740
disprove somebody else's Theory but

1400
00:49:20,930 --> 00:49:18,480
let's just be transparent about it it is

1401
00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:20,940
what it is let's all be adults and let's

1402
00:49:25,790 --> 00:49:24,180
just remove those layers of of haze

1403
00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:25,800
because that's really what's getting in

1404
00:49:31,849 --> 00:49:28,200
the way of of real progress so good on

1405
00:49:34,490 --> 00:49:31,859
you for that exactly thank you yeah

1406
00:49:37,010 --> 00:49:34,500
um before I let you go I I just want to

1407
00:49:38,750 --> 00:49:37,020
say to our viewers and to you Ryan as

1408
00:49:41,150 --> 00:49:38,760
well I don't know if you've recently

1409
00:49:42,530 --> 00:49:41,160
seen this it's a CTV release so it's in

1410
00:49:44,750 --> 00:49:42,540
Canada so I don't know if that it's

1411
00:49:47,809 --> 00:49:44,760
spread to the states yet uh but uh

1412
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:47,819
Canada has recently started uh a new UFO

1413
00:49:52,970 --> 00:49:50,040
study so it's been nearly 30 years since

1414
00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:52,980
Canada has actually looked into this and

1415
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,540
uh so they're doing that now the the

1416
00:49:59,089 --> 00:49:57,359
project is called Sky Canada project and

1417
00:50:01,730 --> 00:49:59,099
it's the office of the chief science

1418
00:50:03,410 --> 00:50:01,740
advisory of Canada that is in charge of

1419
00:50:05,150 --> 00:50:03,420
this program so they gave it to the

1420
00:50:06,109 --> 00:50:05,160
scientists they didn't give it to the

1421
00:50:09,950 --> 00:50:06,119
military

1422
00:50:12,109 --> 00:50:09,960
down we got good men and women in there

1423
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:12,119
but we do not have the technology to

1424
00:50:17,569 --> 00:50:15,119
study the stuff uh it's uh I've said

1425
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,579
that before we we need help in that

1426
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,680
department for sure but uh supposedly

1427
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,599
there's a nine page presentation that is

1428
00:50:25,609 --> 00:50:23,040
currently circulating within the federal

1429
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:25,619
organizations such as Transport Canada

1430
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:28,500
which is the main Hub where Pilots can

1431
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:30,060
actually report something and they

1432
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:32,880
release everything online the Canadian

1433
00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,520
space agency and the RCMP

1434
00:50:39,890 --> 00:50:37,680
which is the Royal Canadian mountain

1435
00:50:42,589 --> 00:50:39,900
police in Canada is like the equivalent

1436
00:50:45,170 --> 00:50:42,599
of the CIA so anyways that's FBI it

1437
00:50:48,349 --> 00:50:45,180
would be the FBI oh FBI yeah Canada we

1438
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:48,359
have ceases which is like the CIA yeah I

1439
00:50:51,650 --> 00:50:49,680
keep forgetting about those guys they're

1440
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,660
good they're so good I only know this

1441
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:53,040
because I had a friend who worked for

1442
00:50:57,470 --> 00:50:55,800
them nice cool stuff but he can tell you

1443
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:57,480
about it without killing you right he

1444
00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:59,220
drove me past I used to live in Ottawa

1445
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,319
which is Canada's capital city and he

1446
00:51:05,569 --> 00:51:03,599
drove me past it looked like about the

1447
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:05,579
the footprint of what a school would

1448
00:51:09,770 --> 00:51:08,160
have with shrubs that were like 30 feet

1449
00:51:11,630 --> 00:51:09,780
high and it just looked like a wall of

1450
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,640
trees perfectly trim I said what the

1451
00:51:15,049 --> 00:51:13,440
hell's behind that it was this Canadian

1452
00:51:17,809 --> 00:51:15,059
Secret Service he's like they will see

1453
00:51:20,270 --> 00:51:17,819
and hear you within a certain radius of

1454
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,280
even being in the area so that's my

1455
00:51:24,650 --> 00:51:22,559
little bit on uh being as close to CIA

1456
00:51:26,750 --> 00:51:24,660
as possible that and Jim semivan who

1457
00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:26,760
work for the CIA that's that was a cool

1458
00:51:29,930 --> 00:51:28,680
day as well so but this has also been a

1459
00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:29,940
great day

1460
00:51:33,890 --> 00:51:31,740
um but yeah finish your point Jay on the

1461
00:51:34,670 --> 00:51:33,900
yeah I was just gonna say it's my last

1462
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:34,680
question

1463
00:51:39,530 --> 00:51:36,359
um you know there's is it's a global

1464
00:51:42,290 --> 00:51:39,540
issue the Americans are sort of leading

1465
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:42,300
the the the way here uh in in leadership

1466
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,579
into looking into this Canada is finally

1467
00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:46,800
paying attention as well uh we're

1468
00:51:51,890 --> 00:51:49,619
throwing the scientists at it uh what do

1469
00:51:53,329 --> 00:51:51,900
you think we need to do to bring this to

1470
00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:53,339
a global

1471
00:51:57,530 --> 00:51:55,260
um you know platform to say hey we have

1472
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,540
a global problem here because if it's

1473
00:52:01,010 --> 00:51:59,520
none of us it's something else and we

1474
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:01,020
should unite to at least figure out what

1475
00:52:05,089 --> 00:52:03,119
the hell it is until we figure it out we

1476
00:52:07,490 --> 00:52:05,099
don't know and it could be a threat

1477
00:52:09,710 --> 00:52:07,500
um what what would encourage uh what do

1478
00:52:11,390 --> 00:52:09,720
you think would be needed to encourage

1479
00:52:13,069 --> 00:52:11,400
the rest of the world to start paying

1480
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,079
attention to this

1481
00:52:17,930 --> 00:52:16,079
well I think I think we need to be

1482
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:17,940
careful a lot of the world I think might

1483
00:52:23,030 --> 00:52:20,640
already be paying more attention to than

1484
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:23,040
us at least the average American so I

1485
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:25,020
know there's some great work in France I

1486
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:26,520
know there's some great work in South

1487
00:52:32,030 --> 00:52:29,520
America I mean there's probably I'm not

1488
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,040
I'm not that well versed on the all the

1489
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:33,599
all the different groups I know there's

1490
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:36,000
one in Italy as well but so I think

1491
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:37,680
there has been a little bit more of a

1492
00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:39,839
history of this internationally but how

1493
00:52:45,170 --> 00:52:42,839
do we kind of bring it to the Forefront

1494
00:52:47,210 --> 00:52:45,180
um in a way that we can move the ball

1495
00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:47,220
forward I think as a as a global

1496
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:49,140
Community honestly I think we can do it

1497
00:52:52,430 --> 00:52:50,640
with the same conversation that we're

1498
00:52:54,349 --> 00:52:52,440
having in the U.S right we have air

1499
00:52:56,750 --> 00:52:54,359
traffic everywhere on this planet and I

1500
00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:56,760
think every country in this world wants

1501
00:53:02,329 --> 00:52:59,040
to avoid you know their citizens uh

1502
00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:02,339
having an air air incident and also

1503
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:04,200
every country in this world you know

1504
00:53:09,530 --> 00:53:06,660
wants to have sovereignty over their own

1505
00:53:11,150 --> 00:53:09,540
airspace as well and so I think this

1506
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,160
issue whether it's National Security or

1507
00:53:15,410 --> 00:53:13,680
something for scientific interests and

1508
00:53:17,750 --> 00:53:15,420
air safety

1509
00:53:19,790 --> 00:53:17,760
um that every country is going to have a

1510
00:53:22,190 --> 00:53:19,800
stake in that and so I think through

1511
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:22,200
International standards through Iko and

1512
00:53:26,210 --> 00:53:24,480
other uh International Aviation safety

1513
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:26,220
mechanisms that we can expand that

1514
00:53:31,490 --> 00:53:28,980
conversation interact internationally as

1515
00:53:33,290 --> 00:53:31,500
well as be able to perhaps bring data in

1516
00:53:36,410 --> 00:53:33,300
from those International reporting

1517
00:53:38,329 --> 00:53:36,420
channels in a manner that allows for a

1518
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:38,339
coalition of you know international data

1519
00:53:42,650 --> 00:53:40,619
that perhaps we haven't had before

1520
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,660
right amazing well before we let you go

1521
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:44,400
Ryan we want to ask where can people

1522
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:46,980
follow you and uh find your amazing work

1523
00:53:53,450 --> 00:53:50,099
yeah it's uh at merge underscore podcast

1524
00:53:56,990 --> 00:53:53,460
on YouTube uh for the YouTube or for the

1525
00:53:59,329 --> 00:53:57,000
podcast and um for safe aerospace.org

1526
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:59,339
for the Americans for safe Aerospace

1527
00:54:02,750 --> 00:54:00,720
that'd be the best place and you also

1528
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:02,760
find me on Twitter at uh at uncertain

1529
00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:03,960
vector

1530
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:05,819
awesome well we really appreciate your

1531
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:07,079
time we know you're a busy guy and

1532
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:08,160
you're doing a lot of interviews today

1533
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:10,079
thank you for sparing some time with us

1534
00:54:13,069 --> 00:54:11,520
and our audience

1535
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:13,079
um you know it's uh interesting to hear

1536
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,420
these little tidbits we didn't know I.E

1537
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,760
the pilots can't you know testify they

1538
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,440
don't have that whistleblower uh

1539
00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:21,119
protection so

1540
00:54:24,049 --> 00:54:22,260
um it's awesome when we get new

1541
00:54:25,370 --> 00:54:24,059
information and again thanks very much

1542
00:54:27,230 --> 00:54:25,380
for everything you're doing just for the

1543
00:54:29,450 --> 00:54:27,240
movement and for information in general

1544
00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:29,460
and we'd love to have you back anytime

1545
00:54:33,770 --> 00:54:31,619
you want to come back all right Lily

1546
00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:33,780
thank you so much Jason's pleasure yeah

1547
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:40,550
thank you